Oh yeah banning the Aussie flag is the answer.
That will certainly put an end to Australians’ problems with hate and violence:
A RACE hate video that glorifies gang rapist Bilal Skaf and boasts about the Cronulla revenge attacks has been linked to students at Granville Boys High in NSW.
And in answer to Wussle’s wank and slander fest: yes, in fact, me and my “ilk” do have a cultural event, and indeed in some ways it is sad. We call it ANZAC Day.
Just out of interest: how the fuck did you arrive at the idea that a commercial event with bands is somehow “yours”?
January 24, 2007 at 8:33 am
Interesting..one of wussle’s commenters attributes the “fry leftists” post on Crusader Rabbit to me.
The dumb bastards can’t even get basic facts straight.
Lebanese in Australia using the Leb flag as a hate symbol? NEVER!!!
It’s merely an expression of multicultural diversity, Murray.
January 24, 2007 at 8:55 am
Well Wussel and his commisar cronies are all about the hate, vilifaction and slander. We’re still waiting for his retraction of a previous miss-attribution.
Even though he knew he’d got it wrong he claimed it was three years old so it didn’t matter. In fact it was three months old and he was still trading on his (false) claims so clearly its the Dear Leaders text book on delay then cry time to move on.
What an interesting way to never have to get you claims soiled by facts.
January 24, 2007 at 9:40 am
I had to laugh at the line in the article about having to wait until classes resume to determine whether any of the miscreants in the video are current students. Does the school staff not recognize their own students? Do they not have a yearbook lying around?
January 25, 2007 at 8:39 am
how the fuck did you arrive at the idea that a commercial event with bands is somehow “yours”?
If a music festival isn’t for music fans, who is it for, exactly?
January 25, 2007 at 8:44 am
noizy Wussle and co are claiming that musical events are the cultural property of the left.
And you’re wrong as well. It’s a commercial event with the purpose of making money. It is elementary capitalism.
January 25, 2007 at 8:45 am
one of wussle’s commenters attributes the “fry leftists” post on Crusader Rabbit to me.
I’m sorry, that was probably me. The post was on a site called Crusader Rabbit, so I attributed it to that site? That was wrong?
January 25, 2007 at 8:48 am
It’s a commercial event with the purpose of making money.
Well, at such an event, surely those risking their money can impose whatever rules they want in order to ensure the maximum return. eg. banning flags. Another tenet of “elementary capitalism”, or not?
January 25, 2007 at 8:54 am
Wussle and co are claiming that musical events are the cultural property of the left.
I also think you’ve over-stated RB’s claims. Unless you equate ‘the left’ with ‘music fans’. The relevant quote (unless you can find another) was that Russell said he was “warming to this reclaiming the BDO for music fans thing.”
For people who want to wave their flags and demonstrate their national pride there is, as you rightly pointed out, an existing event: Anzac Day fills the role nicely.
January 25, 2007 at 9:55 am
“I also think you’ve over-stated RB’s claims”
No. Within the context of his entire statement is is made clear that the commisar equates this event with belonging to people of socialist political leanings and that conservatives have “sad little cultural events that no one comes to” or something along those those lines.
My experience leads me to believe that people attend musical events because they like the music not the politics of the individuals playing the instruments. I would name the Dixie Chics as an example of the musicians failing to grasp this.
“Well, at such an event, surely those risking their money can impose whatever rules they want in order to ensure the maximum return”
Do you want to retract this one of your own bat?
If not then the answer is no absolutely not. Can you deliberately let more people into a venue than permitted to maximise your return? No Can you circumvent all laws that don’t suit you? No. There’s an entire volume on what you can and can’t do when you hos something like this. For example if you are an exhibitor at the gift show in Auckland in march the instructions are some 40 pages most detailing what you can’t do within your own area. These restrictions are placed on them by the people organising the even who likewise have a massive book on what they can can’t and are required to do that will limit their return. Your proposition is simply silly wishful thinking.
There is also the fact that they have been granted the rights to use a state owned venue. I’m damn sure you’ll find a list of what they can and can’t do. I doubt the flag will be specifically mentioned but I am damn sure you will NOT find that they have permission to circumvent the individual rights of Australians to this degree.
Attribution as it relates to Wussle and his site has a zero tolerance on right side of the blogsophere as he has frequently been wrong, often it appears deliberate and he does this to attack individuals by claiming they have written things they haven’t and also claiming they have said things they haven’t.
This includes a rabid little attack on a professional Australian journalist for ABC in which Wussle launched into a spittle flecked tirade based entirely on him claiming the journalist had authored something which was in fact written by a American soldier. He was made aware of this and he simple refused to correct his elementary error so now we crap on him whenever he does it because he lying sack of shit who deliberately defames people. You’ll note we don;t try to shut him, just point out he’s full of crap.
He’s free to talk shit, we’re free to point it out.
January 25, 2007 at 11:20 am
“Well, at such an event, surely those risking their money can impose whatever rules they want in order to ensure the maximum return”
Do you want to retract this one of your own bat?
Well, yes, obviously not ‘any rules’ and those that flout the law, but within the realms of reason. The organisers can (and do) already impose limits on what can and can’t be taken into the BDO. You can’t take something as innocuous as water bottles, for example. Cameras were banned until recently. I don’t have a ticket stub handy, but the list of items not allowed wasn’t short. A blanket ban on flags and banners (which is what should have been mooted) is hardly an excessive measure.
My experience leads me to believe that people attend musical events because they like the music not the politics of the individuals playing the instruments.
Indeed. So why the need to take a flag and politicise it?
I am damn sure you will NOT find that they have permission to circumvent the individual rights of Australians to this degree.
Since when was carrying a flag a specific ‘right’? Is taking water to a hot, sunny music festival any less a right, and yet they manage to do that without anyone getting up in arms.
January 25, 2007 at 12:00 pm
I’m not sure that carrying the flag is a specific right. I could make a case though.
I do know that generally by law in Commonwealth countries citizens have the right to a flag on their coffin. This will upset some priests but as i say generally that is the law.
Now at this stage we are essentially in agreement we’re just thrashing out the fine points which are largely arguable matters of opinion.
I would have to say that preventing someone displaying their flag could be successfully challenged as a freedom of expression violation. If protesters are able to use such a defence for burning a flag then surely carrying one or wearing one in some form is at least equally a right.
Also you’re playing straw man by claiming that the flag is being “polioticized” by those carrying it at these events. If you happen to know the motivation of every person carrying something with the Oz flag on it then you can take over where the Amazing Kreskin left off.
The issue is not that concert goers seek to politicise the flag. The problem is that there are thugs in the crowd who are racists and seek to intimidate others and will use whatever excuse they can to be violent scum. One of the things they are using are the flag. Take it away and they’ll be wearing Holden t-shirts. Problem remains, everyone punished.
Stopping them carrying flags will not stop them being assholes. Treat the disease not the symptom. The best why to screw them is in fact to have EVERYONE with a flag and to let them know there are some pricks who are not getting into either a the spirit of the event or the concept of what the flag stands for. You’ve just scored yourself 40,000 more security staff.
Keep in mind that Australians are a patriotic people. Patriotism is not a dirty word and please don’t go down the trail of attempting to paint patriots as hitler youth, fascists whatever because I’ll edit it. That sort of comment offends a great many of my readers have lost friends and relatives in service. I have.
This event is so close to Australia’s national day that it would be simply foolish to think that there would not be flags about in some form. I dare you to take a walk along any beach in Oz during summer and NOT see the flag in some form.
Tell me the babe in the bikini so small theres like only half a star visible is making a political statement. If she is I’ll vote for it right now!
All those kids with the free stick-on tattoos, they’re calling for longer play times, free milk and a whites only Australia? Or are kids being kids and wearing a little flag on their faces or arms is fun? Fun would be within the spirit of the event wouldn’t it?
Just because something isn’t named specific right that doesn’t by default mean that it is banable by a commercial venture. As has been demonstrated almost across the board this decision was unpopular and the carrying and displaying of the Oz flag is at least considered a right. The banning of the flag - lets not pretend that there wasn’t an intention to do just that, we all have google here - was a badly calculated move that I think would not have been effective anyway. I speak from experience as a security officer at events like this.
At this point whether or not the carrying of the Oz flag is specific right is arguable and without recourse to a legal decision we’re not going to get any further.
But whats the next plan, ban #4 haircuts? Will that stop skinheads being thugs?
You’ve agreed that promoters do not have a carte blanche right to ban at will so at this point you’re siding with their intention to avoid trouble. Good intentions/road to hell option.
My position is that every citizen has a right to their flag. As I mention earlier, even the elements of our societies I don’t like seeing with my flag. I would no more deny them the right to my flag than I would a veteran on ANZAC Day.