But use it at your peril. Copywrite enforced by catapult.

12 Responses to Discuss…

  1. pmofnz says:

    “the ditch may have once marked the outer defences of a much larger city than had previously been suspected”

    Looking at WikiPedia the 20-25m elevation difference from the citadel to the plain must have been a daunting obstacle to invaders. No wonder Troy lasted so long from the Bronze Age to Romans.

  2. lofty says:

    As far as I can find out this is a map of Hisarlik, the modern Troy.

    It is located in Turkey, and was (is) the location of Homers stories about the Late Bronze Age Trojan War.

    I freely admit to using google to find out a bit, as google is my friend Murray.

  3. Murray says:

    I’m working on the ditch being set out from the wall as an obstruction to chariots and siege engines creating a killing zone in which the Trojans have the area under direct fire and the use of thei chariots against a disordered attacker deprived of any mobile support.

  4. Murray says:

    Lofty the hill is named Hisarlik and the site is now known as “Troia” becuse there is still soem argument about the validity of the site as “Troy” or even that there was a Tojan War,

    The defences of this site is the subject of this years thesis project.

  5. lofty says:

    It seems that the trench pattern was effective aginst seige engines etc as you say Murray, it is interesting that the only large weapon of war that could make it through the defences was the “trojan horse”.
    I struggle with the powerful in Troy being so vain as to allow this obvious weapon of deceit into the city, based on the word of the “lone” greek left behind to rage aginst his kinsmen about being deserted, and assuring the trojans that the horse was safet to move into the walls of the city.
    And then relying on the Trojan warriors getting pissed in the nught and unable to resist attack from the Greeks in the horse.
    How bloody big was the horse anyway?

  6. Murray says:

    The story of the horse is an interesting one lofty and the subjet of a book I’ll be working on over Christmas.

    Given the defensive system here it does reconcile virgils account in that a gate post had to be removed because the horse was too large to get throught the gate way. The holes cut into the bedrock of the apllisade gates have a central hole of the gate leaves to rest on. This out gate was deafeated, but the greeks still needed to put men inside the horse to capture the town gate that was kept closed and guarded.

    The idea of deception as a military tool is a theme rather than an aberation and the Trojan Horse is a common example employed by military historians.

    Interestingly they use Homer, but not Troy, the site. In fact the site gives good evidence for the Iliad beiong historically based when considering these recent finds.

  7. lofty says:

    Yes I understand that the trojan horse is an example of deception, and I suppose that in another shape & form has been very successful on the battle field.

    It just seems in this case that the horse must have been so large, and awkward to move into the city, that the obvious trickery was not discovered.

    The greeks bearing gifts, must have had to piss & shit etc, did they store this in leak & odour proof containers etc?

    Just musing is all Murray, I find it interesting to take my mind off staff rosters, training issues etc.

  8. Murray says:

    Well there is actually no preactical argument against a wooden horse.

  9. lofty says:

    Do you mean that no one has botherd to put up a practical argument Murray, or is it that it is just accepted that it is what it is, and no argument can be put?

    I hope that it is all true, as it is part of a great yarn, starting with the golden apple etc.

    Also Murray, I am thinking of changing my name to Paris, he sounds like my kind of guy, knocked off Achilles, good looking too. Plus Plus Plus he got to root Aphrodite. 😉

  10. lofty says:

    mmm No he didn’t root Aphrodite, she put him onto Helen.

    War over women, how unusual, makes a change from religion I suppose.

    Fascinating reading, must look closer.

  11. Murray says:

    Then you want Alexander or Alexandros, his princely name.

    I’M making an argument for the horse. The only argument against it is that everyone says it a story. The same peopel who say the Iliad is history based.

  12. lofty says:

    Well certainly based on my extremely limited knowledge consisting of a 1/2 hour or so periodic reading today, there is no reason the horse story could not be fact, given that the gates had to be removed etc to fit the structure in.
    Also given that as I understand it the Greeks hidden inside did for the night gaurds and then signalled for the main force to attack Troy.
    It all sounds feasible I suppose.

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